Speaker 0 00:00:00 A new evangelization calls us to go out to kind of bridge the distance between people whom, again, some may be in the pews, some may be kind of the lapse Catholic in your neighborhood. But to re-articulate the core gospel message of our being created in God's image and for relationship with him.
Speaker 2 00:00:23 Welcome to the Catholic Theology Show presented by Avi Maria University. I'm your host, Dr. Michael Dnet, and today we have Josh Canning, the co-founder of you evangelize, an online learning platform and apostolate, uh, to help Catholics, uh, learn how to evangelize and learn the skills that maybe they haven't learned yet. Uh, so Josh, welcome to the show.
Speaker 0 00:00:46 Thank you for having me. It's a, it's a, it's a pleasure and it delight to be here.
Speaker 2 00:00:50 That's awesome. And I just wanna begin with a kind of a, a big question. Um, is the new evangelization getting old <laugh>?
Speaker 0 00:01:00 Uh, I think that's a great question. Um, and I think that in some ways, I mean, in the, in the, in the span of our lifetime, we could say, yeah. I mean, uh, you know, the, the term was coined, at least my first knowledge of it is, uh, John Paul II speaking to the, uh, conference of Latin American bi bishops. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, look to the future, uh, to a new evangelization. One that it's new in arter and methods and expressions, Um, you know, that would've been said, uh, right around the time that I was being born <laugh>. Um, so in a sense, we could say, yeah, it's been, it's been around for a while. And in other sense, I would say it's just getting started. I mean, in church, church terms, what is 40 years? Right? Yeah. So, uh, I would say, uh, if we're not listening, then perhaps, um, yeah, maybe, maybe it's gotten old, but if, if, if the call is red redoing in our hearts and in our parishes mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, then we're just getting started. So, yeah.
Speaker 2 00:01:49 Yeah. That's a, that's a great way of putting it. And maybe, you know, for listeners who haven't really thought much about what the new evangelization means, uh, it seems that in many ways, kind of the idea is that previously Christian cultures have kind of basically lost their Christianity Mm mm-hmm. <affirmative>, Right. You know, that, uh, there's that idea that Right. God has no grandchildren. Right. Uh, that each generation has to be kind of born anew from the church, from God, develop that relationship with God. And so we have these cultures in Western Europe and in the United States, and many other places around the world, uh, that were at once kind of more predominantly Christian and now are really not. Right. Uh, and what that means is that kind of the meaningfulness of the terms, the meaningfulness of the words are no longer really kind of palpable to people.
Speaker 2 00:02:46 Right. Uh, so, so we, and so in a certain instance, this is also maybe harder than to evangelize people that don't know Christ is one thing. But I think it was GK Chesterton in his great book, uh, The Everlasting Man, uh, that CS Lewis said, baptized his intellect Hmm. Uh, and was very instrumental in his conversion. Uh, Chesterton said that in, in a culture that used to be Christian, uh, he's says, Familiarity breeds both kind of ignorance and contempt. Mm. Uh, that we don't really understand what it means to be Christian, but we know we don't like it. Right. Uh, and, uh, I think he said one time, right, Christianity hasn't been, uh, tried and found wanting it's been found difficult and therefore not tried. Yeah. So, so in a way, it's also like to talk about the new evangelization is to say that this is actually going to be a much more difficult process mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, because people in a way think they already know what the good news is. Right? Yep. Um, so maybe just what would you, what would be ways that you would, uh, maybe, you know, just explain in kind of simple terms, what is the new evangelization and, and how has it maybe, uh, you know, how has it been, uh, kind of implemented in some ways by the
Speaker 0 00:03:59 Church? Yeah. So if the old evangelization was the mission at Adventist, the people far off Okay. Went to Un Christianized Lands. Sure. Um, you know, and once we've, once we've proclaimed the gospel there, now that's part of Christ Anddo, you know, and then we can move on to the next far off land. Okay. Uh, perhaps the new evangelization is a recognition that our own people in the pews, uh, perhaps have not, uh, fully enjoyed or received and responded to the message of the gospel. So, in other words, they are, they're showing up, but there's something missing in the way in which they relate to their Lord in their, in their lives, you know?
Speaker 2 00:04:32 Wow. So that's, So you're actually saying then part of the new evangelization is to evangelize people attending mass? Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:04:38 Yeah. Wow. Yeah. My friend Michael Dot, my co-founder at, at uh, u evangelized.org, uh, he says that the simplest way that he would describe in five words, you, the new evangelization, is the evangelization of the baptized, you know? Wow. And so it's a recogni recognition that, Yeah. Like I think if we were to sequester Catholics coming outta mass on Sunday and even just kind of quiz them on their own about, you know, how would you say like a person gets saved, you know mm-hmm. <affirmative>, like how, how do we merit eternal life? These kinds of things. You might get answers all across the board, you know? Mm-hmm. If you were to ask them, Do you as a baptized Christian have, uh, a duty and a, and a privilege to proclaim Christ to other peoples? You might get answers again, all across the board. Cuz I think that Catholic church is big mm-hmm.
Speaker 0 00:05:17 <affirmative>, and we have all kinds of different ideas amongst Catholics, and if we're, if we're honest, we're probably not the best catechized group, you know, And, and, uh, as we go down deeper, it's like, maybe we're not even, not, not, not only not well catechized, we might not be not well evangelized, and we may have missed kind of key things, even though we grew up in the faith, you know? Wow. Um, I was raised Catholic. Uh, I, uh, had a sort of period of wandering away in my late teens. Came back in a profound way, uh, within college, went into work in the church, uh, full-time in campus ministry. Yeah. And even as a full-time campus minister, I had still not heard myself that, uh, it was incumbent upon every, uh, believer to share the gospel with others that wasn't even really a focus of our ministry.
Speaker 0 00:05:58 Like, in a way you could say, you could say it kind of was like, maybe I should distinguish between ordinary evangelization and new evangelization the way that Pope Benedict did. Right. Okay. So the church always evangelizes mm-hmm. <affirmative> as, as she, uh, brings the sacraments to people and her preaching and her proclaiming of, of, of the gospel, you know, at, at, at mass. So it's there, if you're kind of looking for it, if you show up and, and come, you know, you might see, um, the, the core gospel message in even the, um, uh, stain glass windows of the church. Like it's there and it's being proposed, but a new evangelization calls us to go out a little bit, even more like, to kind of bridge the distance between people who, again, some may be pews, some may be kind of the lapse Catholic in your neighborhood.
Speaker 0 00:06:39 Um, but to reticulate the core gospel message of, you know, our being created in God's image mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and for relationship with him, that relationship being wounded by sin from our first parents and in the way that we sin. Um, and the reality that there was no human way to, to bridge the gap between us and God, you know, God respected, um, the fact that, uh, our offense created that separation and mm-hmm. <affirmative> and, uh, an offense against a all good, uh, God could not be amended by human beings alone. Right. It required God to send his only son to, uh, pay a price for our sins, you know, that we're told in, uh, in the testament that we were ransom for a price, um, to open up the possibility of, of renewed relationship and even deeper relationship than, than than Adam and Eve would've had. Um, and that every person, they don't, they don't have to do anything dramatic to earn that, that gift. They just have to decide to receive it. Um, and, and do we wanna receive it? You know, that's evangelization is giving everybody that opportunity to hear that message, to know they are loved, to know they are invited into this sort of new relationship with a God who loves them, Um, and that they're only, all that's incumbent upon them is, is to accept or not accept that, you know,
Speaker 2 00:07:52 Well, that's so beautifully put, and at such a hopeful Right. Reality, uh, that we have in our faith, Right. That we were, you know, created to be children of God, that we had that relationship, wounded Christ restored it through his death and resurrection, and that we can now receive it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Right. And, and not only become kind of children of God in the external sense, but become intimately known mm-hmm. <affirmative> and love and delighted in mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Right, right. By our father. Yeah. Uh, that seems, it's, it's funny what you can imagine in a way, a world that we live in, in many ways in which we've lost that truth. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and we feel very alone. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> separated. Yeah. Sometimes lost, often down. Right. All these different elements, because we don't have that sense of that kind of intimate relationship mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 00:08:43 <affirmative> Yeah. You know, with, with, with God. Uh, and I remember hearing a story, I think this was somewhat made popular by Sherry Woodell in, uh, maybe it was a pew stu it was a pew study or something, but maybe something along the lines of 40% of Catholics who attend mass don't believe in a personal God. Right? Yeah. Um, that they believe maybe in a God of, um, I don't know, like some kind of mind behind, impersonal mind behind the universe. Right? Yeah. Uh, but how can I have that intimate personal relationship that I don't have to go through my suffering alone, I don't have to go through my joys alone. Right. That I have hope.
Speaker 0 00:09:20 Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it even, it's funny, but like, we really have to spend time to sort of drill down to what, like, we might even believe in a, in a God that loves humanity, but do I believe in a God who loves me? You know? Wow. Like, do I believe in a God that love forgives people's sins, or do I believe in a God who forgives my sin? You know? Yeah. Um, and it's, it's, it's funny, but like, we can, we can let some of the messages we hear even growing up as Catholics kind of fade into the background a little bit and not, not kind of fully grasp the impact that that has on our own lives.
Speaker 2 00:09:52 Yeah. I was thinking about that too, that, uh, there's a powerful story where, uh, Thomas Moore, uh, who's one of our great, um, you know, saints and martyrs of the church, and as he was in prison in the tower awaiting death, uh, under King Henry III for his, uh, fidelity to, uh, the Bishop of Rome as a head of the church on Earth. Uh, anyway, among a lot of other things that he writes about, he meditates on the, the sadness of Christ, uh, Christ's being there before in the garden, before his thing. But one of the things he says that just, it struck me so powerful, is he says, The first person that I need to pray for is myself. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Like, I need to pray for my own deeper conversion. And this is Thomas Moore, who's done the heroic thing and is facing his, awaiting his death.
Speaker 2 00:10:43 But he's saying, I need to pray for my own deeper conversion. Uh, and I feel like I, I, I just think that's so powerful. And I feel like in the same way when yes, I wanna pray for others, but I don't remember, I'm the first one that needs to convert more deeply. Right. Uh, and in a way, when we think about evangelization, I do think there's, there's an aspect that the first person I need to evangelize is myself. Right. Right. Because I haven't, you know, I don't know how, like, you know, I haven't fully embraced the fact that God is my father. It's why, like, when I pray the, our Father, um, just as though I say, Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses, there's also a certain sense when I say, Right. You know, our father who aren't in heaven, how would be your name?
Speaker 2 00:11:22 It's like, I'm just like, I'm asking for bread every day. I'm also reaffirming that God is truly my father. So when I try to take over my life and say, as though I'm the father of my life, or I want my name to be known, or my will to be done every time I pray they are Father, I'm kind of re evangelizing myself mm-hmm. <affirmative> and saying, No, no, like that. I've, I've tried that. It didn't work. <laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. Lord, you take over. Yeah. You know, and then let me live according to your will. Right. So, may your will be done on Earth as it is in heaven, as it's being done in you, may it also be done in me. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, Yeah. And I think in, in, in some ways. So I just think that's, that's a really powerful idea. Yeah. Right. The first we evangelize ourselves, uh, first we call ourselves to a deeper life of faith. And then I think it makes it maybe a little bit, uh, easier to kind of share that with others mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because we're kind of just like other people, which means we struggle mm-hmm. <affirmative> for defined meaning and hope, and we struggle to live well, and we struggle with temptations in these different elements. Right?
Speaker 0 00:12:27 Yeah. Yeah. We, we can't give what we don't have. And, um, you know, I think of our lady, you know, bearing Christ of the world, like literally, you know, and it's like mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, she, she literally bore him in her womb and, uh, was able to reveal him to the world. We need to bear Christ in our hearts. Definitely. If we wanna be fruitful and evangelization. Yeah. We can't just kind of, uh, know the facts and have the sort of background knowledge we need to be intimately loving the Lord, uh, day by day. Some of the good news though is, you know, the reality is, is, is, um, it's harder. I mean, there's times where we think, you know, I, I, I, I could pray better, I could be more committed to mental prayer mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I could, you know, be more committed to daily mass. And, and I'm, and I'm still growing and I work in progress. Yeah. Good. The good news is, is when we commit ourselves to evangelization, um, we are always, I think, the first beneficiary of that evangelization as well. Just like in our prayer life, we are, uh, evangelizing ourselves. When we try to share Christ with others, we ourselves are reconnecting with that message, which we're sharing. And so it's kind of like, there's, there's enough for you and there's enough for me, kind of thing,
Speaker 2 00:13:26 You know? Interesting. So it's not just that we can't give what we don't have, but to a certain extent, we don't have what we don't give.
Speaker 0 00:13:33 Right. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. I think, um, you know, if, if we were caught in the, um, thinking that I need to get to this level of holiness mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, maybe a few hairs below Mother Teresa, then I'll sort of evangelizing Uhhuh <affirmative>, Um, we're actually tricking ourselves because we can get holier, you know, we become holier, um, through becoming more intimate with the Lord by trusting him to work through us and bearing him to others. You know, like we, I used to work with the Alpha program in Canada, um, and so we would run a number of alphas in, in our parish, and in a way you could say, Well, we've heard these messages before. What's proclaimed in alpha is the core gospel message. Okay. Um, but I would find hearing that message again and again mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I would always be enriched every time I would learn new things from the same talks, from the same content. And then through talking about, um, the con content in our small groups, you know, and hearing other people's, uh, feedback reflections, questions, It was like the gospel was again, being presented to me. So I think any evangelist, whether they even see the fruits they want in sharing the gospel with another person, um, they should evangelize because it's good for their own heart and for their own relationship with the
Speaker 2 00:14:44 Lord. That's really beautiful. Um, how would you, I think sometimes people, when they think about evangelization, um, I dunno, their first feeling is a smiled embarrassment or sense of awkwardness. Um, maybe it's that, uh, well, sure. For, you know, Fulton sheen for CS Lewis, Scott Hahn for priests for professional evangelizer, that's fine. But, you know, I don't, I I I get nervous around other people or these sorts of things, so I don't, I just, the whole, the whole topic of evangelization just makes me feel very awkward. Right, Right. How would you, what would you say to such people?
Speaker 0 00:15:22 Yeah, I would say that, I mean, I think that behind that thought, uh, some people may be thinking that, um, evangelization is not everyone's call. You know, like, there might be people that are, you know, more attuned to certain devotional groups in the church, you know mm-hmm. <affirmative> or certain kind of apostolic kind of things. They might think, you know, evangelization is for those really articulate people, you know? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, maybe really witty, good conversation, I don't know, whatever. But, um, but it's not for me. Um, I would say for those people, it would be good for them to hear that recent pops have reminded us that every person is called, uh, to evangelize. You know? It's like, it's like at one point that people didn't realize we're all called to be saints, you know? And then that, to kind of really reinforce that, no, that holiness is for everyone. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, the, the, the flip side of that is that mission is also for everyone, you know? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, John Paul ii, um, said that no believer in Christ, no institution of the church can avoid the supreme duty to proclaim Christ to all peoples. And Pulp Francis and Evangel G kind of reminded that when he said that, um, the new evangelization calls for personal involvement on behalf of all the baptized, Oh, no, actually, I'm quoting for John Paul again. Um, but it was that, Yeah. That,
Speaker 2 00:16:34 That personal involvement of all, Yes. So just as there's kind of a universal call to holiness that some people have noted, there's also Right. A universal call to, to mission. Yes. And to evangelization.
Speaker 0 00:16:45 Exactly. Yeah. Um, and so we need to first hear that, I think, and realize, Okay, so the Lord knows me. The Lord made me, so the Lord knows my strengths and my weaknesses, the areas that I could grow, And yet it says that I'm being cold, uh, to evangelize. Okay. So then what does, does that mean? You know? And I think if people have sort of heard that it sound mm-hmm. <affirmative> that they're gonna then say, Okay, so how might that look in in my life? And mm-hmm. <affirmative>, what are my first feelings? And you mentioned sort of the feelings of awkwardness and whatnot. Okay. So like, what's under, under that, you know, do I have sort of a caricature of what a Christian is? You know, like a, like a bible thumping, kind of like, I'm better than you thing, or mm-hmm. <affirmative>, maybe, maybe, maybe.
Speaker 0 00:17:23 I'm kind of thinking that that's how I'll be perceived, but we don't proclaim something that we have created through our own gifts. You know, it's not like, Hey, here's, here's this thing that I have, and because I'm so advanced and knowledgeable, I can, I can share that with you, um, because I'm so like above you. No, it's, it's like, Hey, we are like, we are all on the same page, um, and we have found something of an, of an infinite value. Would you also like it? You know? Yeah. Like, I don't know who, who coined this sort of image, but it's like somebody said that evangelization is like, um, starving people who have found a house full of bread going and telling other starving people, There's enough for all of us. Would, would you like to come and eat and be filled? That's the kind of position. So, um, I think we can just remind ourselves of that and realize, Yeah. Like people may or may not misinterpret that, but what if they accepted, like, isn't that worth even the possible embarrassment? Or, you know, they might think that, I think I'm better than them and I don't. But isn't that worth a possible kind of awkwardness if they would receive the pearl great price?
Speaker 2 00:18:28 Yeah. You know, it's interesting. I reminds me of, uh, CS Lewis and Mere Christianity when he describes faith. Uh, he says, Faith is a sort of bankruptcy where we admit that all of our best efforts to live virtuously have failed mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So to a certain extent, to be a Christian Right. Uh, means that I have basically failed at managing my own life. Right. And I've admitted it. Yeah. Yeah. I've said, Right. You know, I've admitted that I need a manager of my life because my life at times, so it's gotten beyond my ability. Right. And that's really when I say, Great God Yeah. Is that great manager, and he had to kind of become my father. Right, Right. By having his son Right. Die for me rise and send his spirit into my hearts. Uh, and it's like even that beautiful line from Psalm 23, The Lord is my shepherd.
Speaker 2 00:19:22 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and of course we have Jesus saying, I am the good shepherd. Right. Well, the irony there is the moment I say the Lord is my shepherd, I'm admitting that I'm not my own shepherd. Right. Right. I, uh, and, and when I say, when I hear Jesus is the good shepherd, again, I'm saying I'm not. So I think, again, if we really remember that mm-hmm. <affirmative>, then the, again, it's, uh, to become a Christian and to share that with others is to say like, Oh, you two. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Oh, you two have, uh, found life harder than you thought. Yeah. Or you two have felt overwhelmed. Right. Or, you know, you two. Uh, and then realizing though that it doesn't stop there. Right? Yeah. But it becomes a great adventure. Right, Right. That our life becomes having filled with meaning and purpose. Uh, and, and there's this, this great adventure of kind of knowing that, you know, uh, Terre Sue has that idea that at the end of time, we're gonna stand before God with empty hands as she puts it, that, you know, we kind of are freed to act and to do things because we kind of know that it's almost, not only can we not give what we don't have, we don't have what we don't give.
Speaker 2 00:20:27 We can't give what we have anyway. It's all kind of God. Right. You know, it really is this beautiful thing that I think frees us to act because we kind of know who wins in the end. Right. Right. That God is the victor. Christ is the
Speaker 0 00:20:40 Victor. Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes in, in evangelization in the kind of like the kind of evangelization that happens just in the conversational kind of context. Yeah. Um, just on that theme of recognizing that I don't have at all. Right. Yes. Um, I met a, I met a man in an airport one time. Um, uh, he was asking what I do, and I talked a little bit about my work with Alpha at the time. And, uh, when people hear you work in the church there, sometimes they're very free to just tell you their basic philosophy. Like, here it is, you know? Okay. And he said, You know, like, I grew up in the church, don't really go anymore. Uh, I believe, uh, I try to be a good person. That's all that matters, you know? Yeah. And you might ask yourself in that que in that moment, like, What, what would I say to that?
Speaker 0 00:21:20 You know? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, um, I don't know if the Holy Spirit kind of gave it to me or whatnot, but I said, Yeah, like, I hear what you're saying. But, um, for me, my faith, um, aids me in those moments when I know that I wanna be a better person and I can't, you know? Wow. What about those moments when it's like, I am not the person that I want to be, and I need assistance with that because we all wanna be a good person, You know? Yeah. I said, like, for me, like that's something that it is, it is brought, is, uh, assistance and help when I recognize that I'm not the man that I want to be, you know?
Speaker 2 00:21:51 Wow. Yeah. That is really, when Christianity can speak. Uh, I think it was the author of that book, um, Jesus calling that said that she was on a retreat one time and not a Christian at the time, but the person asked her, Are there any sins that you can't forgive yourself for? And I think maybe today when people don't always understand what a sin is, or they think it's external, kind of say, Is there anything of which you're ashamed that you can't let go of mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I think when we have that moment mm-hmm. <affirmative>, right, That's in a way when the gospel begins to speak.
Speaker 0 00:22:21 Right? Yeah. So, and when and when someone sees like our solidarity with them in weakness Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:22:26 Then
Speaker 0 00:22:27 There's a long pause afterwards. Yeah. You know, and then our conversation really opened up in an interesting way, You know, I wouldn't say that that man accepted the gospel in the moment, but it was kind of funny because he said, You know, you should, you should talk to my daughter <laugh>. He was like, You know, I'm not interested, but you should talk to my daughter. So it's funny, he, he won, he saw the value of faith and he wanted it for his family members, but he was still kind of closed off and a passing conversation in airport. Who knows what the Lord does with that, you know? But it's, uh, we present ourselves with, uh, our openness and our willingness to be vulnerable, and our willingness to prod in a gentle way and go deeper. Okay. Um, and I think the Lord, uh, does beautiful things with that. And sometimes you're kind of amazed and you're sitting there two hours later and, uh, the Lord is, has done a lot. So Yeah.
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Speaker 2 00:23:40 So, Josh, uh, for maybe listeners who, you know, find this kind of, of somewhat compelling, but still don't really have a sense for how to do it mm-hmm. <affirmative>, Right. What would be some tips you might offer
Speaker 0 00:23:51 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>? Well, um, we created an online learning resource called U Evangelize. Um, that's at www do u evangelize.org. You need the W'S for some reason, for our website. Okay. But yes. Um, the letter u evangelized.org, I think it's a helpful resource because it's something somebody can go through either in a small group or on their own mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, to look at some reasons why they might not be already evangelizing, you know? Yeah. Um, so five modules, um, identity, like understanding. Do I realize that sharing the gospel is part of my identity as a Catholic mm-hmm. <affirmative>, like that if I'm muting that I'm actually missing out, and part of the joy of being a Catholic, um, uh, holiness, like, am am I really, truly living the life of prayer that, that I could, um mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, courage. So understanding, yeah. It could be awkward or whatever, but, uh, where does the virtue of courage come into the, uh, proclamation of the gospel?
Speaker 0 00:24:41 Um, the tools that are available. I mentioned alpha, there's others, but ways in which you can create a context where the gospel is proclaimed and you essentially talk about it with people. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, things to make it easier. Right. Um, cuz there is conversational evangelism that can happen when it's, when it's, it's in our mind, but if you actually put it on the calendar, Hey, on, you know, at our parish or in my home, Tuesday nights at seven o'clock, we're gonna have some food. We're gonna share part of the gospel in a, in a, in a video talk, and we're gonna talk about it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, when it's there, it's like, well, then it's happening, You know? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, like, it's gotta happen. So that can be very helpful. And then perseverance, you know, how do we kind of go continue even though we might feel like, Oh, I fumbled this, or whatever.
Speaker 0 00:25:17 Um, you know, and my, and my, my reaction is I wanna kind of withdraw and, you know, not, not engage in this mission again. Um, I find like that that has, we've heard, has helped a lot of people understand, uh, as Catholics how we, we can evangelize. If someone was just asking me how, how can I start, I would say, you know, do that. Um, and then after that I would say, you know, choose one of the tools and just invite people to, to engage in that with you. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, again, it can be one on one. You know, one of the people that went through that resource told us, she reconnected with her adult God daughters and invited them to do an alpha with her. And so this was during the pandemic. So she would do a zoom alpha, they would have their little snacks at home.
Speaker 0 00:26:01 Normally with Alpha you serve, but know they were separated. They would look at the sort of message, you know, who is Jesus? Why did he die? How can I have faith? Uh, and then they would talk about it. And that led to a resurgence of faith, uh, in all for all involved. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they invited the God daughters and invited their parents to take part. Wow. And you kinda saw how it kind of went from there. It required her to do a couple of things that were probably difficult. One, reach out and invite mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, and two show up once a week and, and do the, do the work. Now it's not, it's not rocket science, it's not incredibly hard, but it required putting something in the calendar, uh, and that was how she started evangelizing.
Speaker 2 00:26:37 Um, yeah. So it seems one thing is maybe just the willingness to do something. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, is a great, is a great theme. And then I like to that idea that, um, kind of don't be afraid to make mistakes. Right. Uh, there's, I think that really in any, I don't know, any sport we're learning, you know, you're gonna miss a lot of basketball shots before you begin to make them mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, even when you begin to make them, you're gonna miss them. Right? Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:27:01 Right.
Speaker 2 00:27:01 Uh, whether or not, you know, if you're, you're playing golf, you always try to focus on the next shot. Right, Right. Don't you gotta the last shot you have to forget. Yep. So these, uh, themes are very, you know, just so powerful because I think a lot of us are so afraid of making mistakes, Right? Yeah. That we just don't do anything. Yeah. Yeah. And maybe that's, that just are such a key theme is just like, welcome to the club. Yeah. Right. We all make mistakes. Right? Yeah. And, and that's fun. It's kinda like, to a certain extent, uh, maybe, you know, see it as either something that goes well, or something that we can learn from.
Speaker 0 00:27:30 Right. Exactly. Yeah. And don't let the perfect become the enemy of the good. Right? Sure. Like, I think another challenge too is, is, um, probably your average Catholic parish, you haven't really seen it modeled a lot like an evangelization activity mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So it really feels like stepping out because I've never participated in one mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and I've never led one. So, um, Yeah. You might ask yourself again, am I really equipped for this mm-hmm. <affirmative> because you haven't seen other regular people doing it. Yeah. You know, and that's one of the challenges I think for our, for the new evangelization is to create cultures of regular Catholics evangelizing in parishes and in inner homes, and seeing what it looks like and seeing how it's done and talking about it and seeing, Oh, other people are afraid too. Other people, Oh, other people felt dumb in this context too. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, so, Oh. So that means I'm not completely, you know, sticking my neck out. This is actually what it looks like. Um, we need to build up those sort of cultures of evangelization, and I've heard it say we need to create in our churches a safe place for people to fail, you know, learn about themselves. Yeah. And when we do that, then gosh, then we can start firing on all cylinders. And, uh, it won't be such a strange kind of mm-hmm. <affirmative> far off concept.
Speaker 2 00:28:35 Sure. How would you, I mean, address, it kind of reminds me a little bit of, you can have, uh, maybe formal programs from time to time. You can have like, perish based programs or just, Hey, I wa was thinking of going through this, uh, online program or reading this book, Would you wanna read this book together with me and we could get together once a week and have coffee and talk about it? Yeah. Um, so I think these are different ways. Um, what would you say kind of the role of, you know, friendship and relationship plays in, uh, evangelization and apostate?
Speaker 0 00:29:08 Yeah. Well, I would say friends and relations, though they might, we might feel, um, like the stakes are higher for them, you know? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, like I've heard it said it's hardest evangelize family members, you know? Sure. Um, that's also where you have already the greatest currency with somebody. Uh, you have the greatest trust. And so if we're, if we're kind of, if someone comes away from this podcast saying, who, like, who, who is my mission field? Who should I reach out to? Oh, I would start there. That would be the kind of the low hanging fruit, even though I might feel the most daunting. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, think about your family members. Think about your friends. Think about those who, you know, who maybe you grew up with and they were very involved in church and have kind of gone, gone away from that.
Speaker 0 00:29:43 You know, I would say think about inviting those people and then just think about other people who the Lord has placed, uh, in your life. Coworkers, colleagues, you know, neighbors, you know, um, that would be the first people I would say, uh, is, is worthwhile to reach out, reach out to. And, um, don't assume for them their response, you know? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it might be very difficult. Cause we might say, you know, I know, uh, my son or daughter or cousin or whatever they left the church. I have a sense of the reasons why. So they, they're, I'm, I'm gonna say they're not interested, don't decide for them. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, let them decide. Uh, because the reality is, I can say this is a former lapse Catholic mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you don't know what's going on. And, and, uh, there are moments where people will reconsider, you know, and where people questions creep up in their own lives of like, yeah. Like, what, gosh, is, is this really all there is, you know, is there more to life than this? You know? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, um, we, we should allow, um, we should allow them and God to make the decision. Not us, not us aside for them, they're not interested. We extend the invitation. They can say no, and that's fine. Um, but allow them and the Holy Spirit working in their heart to actually make the decision and don't choose for them.
Speaker 2 00:30:52 You know, one, one thing I, I've kind of learned, and, and I think this took a lot of time to really understand, um, but that because the faith is so personal, and there are often have been family expectations surrounding faith, Uh, people may not maybe disaffiliated or not practicing, but they may still at the same time love grandma. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, who goes to church mm-hmm. <affirmative>, who praises for them mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and they also feel at the same time mildly kind of guilty or a little bit ashamed that they are not making, you know, maybe grandma or, you know, So it's just complex. And so I've often, one thing I've found helpful is to remember that these are ideas are important. Truths matter. Absolutely. But we we're not angels. Right. Neither good ones or bad ones. Right. We're not merely minds, we're minds with hearts.
Speaker 2 00:31:47 Right. And so our emotional responses of shame or honor mm-hmm. <affirmative> often drive a lot of these conversations and a lot of these elements. So I think creating, uh, just kind of a space where as you put, it's free to fail. It's also don, you know, if, if, if you're gonna create a cult, a conversation around what people genuinely feel and genuinely believe about themselves and about the world, it's, you know, it's, it's not making 'em feel as though they're doing anything wrong, because the faith they were raised in no longer resonates with them. Right. You know, And that it's not like you didn't let us down. Right. You know, you know, like, to, to, if, if you could speak to adult children, it's like, you didn't let us down, or, you know, because I think sometimes when people feel that sense of shame when they think about religion or they think about Jesus, well, they're, they're, they're not then going to go like, Oh, I'm, I'm hungry for more.
Speaker 2 00:32:43 Right. I'm hungry for more awkward feelings. Right. You know, it's more that sense of like, Hey, where are you? Right. I'm genuinely interested in coming to know and understand who you are right now. And so being, creating the space where I can ask questions mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and then listen. Yeah. Somebody put it one time, we have to Right. Take the cotton out of our ears and put it in our mouths. Right. Ask a question and then listen. Yeah. Yeah. And, and sometimes we'll find that the other person I remember reading, uh, I think it was, uh, anyway, a book that came out from word on Fire press, but it described the idea of just kind of planting little, like pebble questions mm-hmm. <affirmative> or something, asking questions like, Hey, what are the best arguments? You know, what are, what are good arguments for the existence of God? Right. Yeah. What's an argument, you know, against the existence of God? And then just letting the other person talking. You know, often sometimes the other person already knows, already has a great understanding, Right, Yeah. Of the thing. And you realize, Okay, that's not really where I need to go. Or, you know, um, who is Jesus for you mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but then just being quiet. Yep. And, and if they're emotionally wrestling with certain questions or certain issues, just letting that be. Because sometimes I feel like we have to give the emotion space mm-hmm.
Speaker 0 00:33:51 <affirmative>. Yeah,
Speaker 2 00:33:51 Absolutely. You know, first. Yeah. Before, And I think sometimes we have to learn, I think maybe when I, I feel like when I first came to faith, I think I was very intellectual and I just wanted to argue everything. Cuz for me, that I felt like that was how I came to understand things. Right. But I realized in a certain sense, evangelization is not the same as apologetics. Right. For sometimes that people, that's really important. So I don't know if you'd kind of say a word about that, the difference between apologetics Yeah. And evangelization. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:34:17 Yeah. Apologetics, I think responds to particular objections of the faith. Um, Okay. And so it may not relate to the core message of the gospel, or it may relate in some sort of distant way, but it might be like things like, um, you know, if the church is so flawed and her sins are so obvious Yeah. How can, how can God really exist? Or how can God be the Holy Spirit be the head of the church? Sure. And so that's addressing a specific kind of thing that does relate back to, you know, God and, uh, evangelization, but evangelism's kind of really, really at the core of us and how we relate to God. Um,
Speaker 2 00:34:53 Okay. Yeah. So it's more like in, so evangelism really is getting to know the person of Jesus Christ.
Speaker 0 00:34:58 Absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:34:59 Right. And whereas Apologetics is kind of clarifying misconceptions Right. About the person of Jesus Christ or God orchard so that we, or church teaching so we can open up space. Absolutely. That's really well put. You know, uh, there's a kind of a famous quote from St. Francis of Assisi. I think that gets used a lot, but I think sometimes it can perhaps become a hindrance to evangelization this idea of Right. Preach the gospel and when you must use words. Yeah. Uh, so what would you say to people who hear that and say, you know, my example's enough? Right.
Speaker 0 00:35:32 I would say that's a very popular quote in the Catholic church, you know, And, and sometimes you even hear Catholics say, Oh, you know, we're not like, uh, evangelical pro Protestants. We preach by kind of the way we live our life. And then the whole world will, will be converted. Well, how's that working out for us, <laugh>? Oh my gosh. Um, I would say that first and foremost, it can be a cop out. You know, it can be a sense of like, um, we think it's more gente or kind, just sort of like, live our life and then let that redone. Um, but I guess I would say a couple things. One, apparently there's no record of St. Francis ever saying that it's, I guess someone's way of articulating, I guess, the idea of, of who Francis was. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But, uh, Peter Heric has a, uh, booklet out called St. Francis used words, You know, it's all, it's all the ways that in which he preach about Christ, you
Speaker 2 00:36:14 Know? Wow. I guess he was really a traveling preacher. He was, Yeah. Correct. And the orders of Iron Warner were both poor and preachers. Right. Yeah. That's, So I think we just kinda maybe like when he did preach Yeah. Like he did preach, he even preached to the birds. Right, Right. Yeah. And one time, so apparently he did preach to people.
Speaker 0 00:36:29 Yeah, yeah. Um, and uh, you know, so it is, it is a tendency cuz again, it's more comfortable for us to just live, live our life and let that speak. That doesn't mean we don't have to do that. Of course. You know, um, the catechism, I think 9 0 5 says that, um, witness of life and how that's part of our apostolates. Wow. But it says that, it says that the true apostle is on the lookout for occasions of announcing Christ by word. Um, and so we have the two things, the witness of life and our, our spoken word about Jesus. So again, it's like, do we wanna be the true apostle who is willing to both walk the walk and talk the talk, or do we wanna just, you know, give this sort of witness and really ask other people to do the work of figuring it out.
Speaker 0 00:37:07 Like, honestly, like we think that, like, I would have a hard time picturing the kind of witness that people could understand from the outside completely the gospel. Like, you know what I mean? Like, they would have to look at us and even, even Mother Teresa, you know, she was willing to talk about Jesus, I have a book up by her called Jesus the Word to be spoken. You know? Oh, okay. It's like the witness may intrigue people to ask questions about why does that person live like that? You know, what animates that? I see joy in that person, but let's not then say, Oh, figure it out, You know? Well,
Speaker 2 00:37:38 And in part maybe another way of looking at it is that, um, a lot of our example is actually our words. Right? Yeah. It's the way we talk. True. It's the way we encounter other people. It's the way we talk about ourselves, the way we admit failure, the way we say that, you know, as I'm looking, as I'm struggling with an issue, I learn I have to turn it over to God. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. You can't see me turn it over to God, <laugh>. Right, right, right. But I, you have to hear me. Yeah. My example is that when I have a situation Yeah, Right. That I cannot figure out. Right. That's when I learn the genuine need to surrender. Absolutely. And to give up the illusion that I can control the world and it outcomes. Right. But that I have to surrender. But that, that's my example.
Speaker 2 00:38:23 Yeah. Cause I'm not actually solving the problem, I'm just admitting that I can and that I'm putting it in my father's hands. Right? Yeah. But to do that is, I mean that, that, that is an intellectual, volitional loving act that's in a way a spiritual act. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Right. So you can't see my spiritual act unless I use words. Right, Right. And I thought, you know, in a certain sense, I mean, you know, there's a little bit of that too, even just with human beings, it's like, yes, it's great to take care of family members. Right. Um, but if we never tell them we love them. Right, Right. If we merely provide a house as a father, but we never give our children hugs. Right, Right. Or, you know, tell them we're proud of them. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. Right. You know, so I feel like, and maybe it's just kind of a, our, our example's never gonna be enough. And of course the other sad thing is that because of I'm, I'm, you know, we also know that we also struggle with, uh, venis sins. We struggle with temptations. Right. Pride isn't left because you go to confession. Right. We still struggle with ego, pride, all these different elements. So Yeah. People are also gonna see in me all sorts of, uh Right. You know, defects.
Speaker 0 00:39:30 Yeah, exactly. And
Speaker 2 00:39:31 All kind of, so there, therefore I have to use words to share. Right. You know, the prayers that we use, um, the hope we have and, and maybe in partly some of just kind of in normal modes of friendship and relationship, that it would be strange to have friendships and relationships with other people that don't at time address our deeper vulnerabilities or our deeper
Speaker 0 00:39:55 Hopes. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So I guess to some of, I would say, don't, don't let it be in either or, like, don't necessarily, like I see tear those, cuz again, who would have the greatest witness of life ever. I mean, our Lord <laugh> we're told at the end of the go of the gospel, John, that he said more words that could fill up the, all the books in the world, basically. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, let's think of the way in which we talk about Christ as part of our witness. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:40:15 Even the Right, the one of the greatest, I mean obviously the greatest act, um, is the Right, His gift of life on the cross mm-hmm. <affirmative> and even on the cross we have write seven words. Yeah. Seven phrases or, you know, his teaching. So we know he forgave them because he said, Father, forgive them. Right. They know not what they do from the cross. Right. Yeah. And know there couldn't be a greater example. Right. Yeah. Than Jesus on the cross. Amen. So I think that's really, uh, helpful. Uh, I wanted to ask you three kind of quick questions. Sure. As, uh, we begin to close and, you know, just kind of, you can give quick answers. Uh, Okay. And, and, and then we can kind of, uh, you know, talk a little bit more just in, in closing about this kind of question of the new evangelization. Uh, for starters, uh, what's a book you've recently read?
Speaker 0 00:41:02 Oh, there's a really good book on, uh, this, it's called, uh, from, uh, Christendom to Apostolic Mission. Uh, it's put up by the University of St. Mary. Um, Okay. And I, it, it really opened my eyes to this topic. I could tell you put it on evangelization book if you like, but Oh, okay. To this topic. Um, it helps me see that a lot of the pastoral, um, challenges we, we currently see is that most in the church are still still thinking and operating as though we are in Christin when really we are in or moving into a very post-Christian
Speaker 2 00:41:30 Place. What does that mean, by the way? For, I don't know, like, Yeah. Could you explain what does it mean to say we, we, you know, Yeah. We were, we, we think we'd live in Christendom or something for people.
Speaker 0 00:41:38 It would, yeah. It would be, uh, a situation where we could presume that the majority of people, whether Catholic or, or Protestant or whatnot, um, believe and understand a Christian worldview, whether they fully embrace it or not. It's like we would believe certain things that come from that so many people go to church, or if not most or all, um, you know, many people believe in the goodness of the nuclear family. You know, uh, many people believe in the virtues that Christianity proposes, you know mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And if they didn't, they would feel a little bit ashamed cuz they would know they were kind of out of, out of line, out of the norm kind of thing. But when you move to a post-Christian place, uh, where it's like, well, who my values are as good as anybody else's, and who knows? And it's, it's relativism is kind of the, the norm. Um, then the suppositions under CDO are not going to, to, uh, make sense. Wow. So, um,
Speaker 2 00:42:29 What was the name of that book
Speaker 0 00:42:30 Again? From Cindo to Apostolic Mission? Okay.
Speaker 2 00:42:33 Yeah. It's interesting. I think, um, reminds me of, uh, there's a quote from CS Lewis's essay, uh, in God in the Doc. And, uh, the doc by the way, in England is where the, um, is where the accused sits. Okay. And he says, In the kind of ancient world and in the Christian world, God judges, man. Um, by the way, when I say that, I also wish to wanna pause and just realize when we talk about God judging, man, let's remember, like you go to the judge for two reasons. One, when you are guilty for doing something, but you also go to the judge when something's been stolen from you. Right. You know, when your neighbor steals the car, you go to the judge mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So I want my car back. Right. And so when we think about God judging us, we can also think about ourselves as having lost our identity as children of God.
Speaker 2 00:43:16 And God justifies us by giving that identity back. Right. So just as a word about, we're both kind of, and of course in this case we are both the guilty but also the victim. Right? Right. And so, but that idea, he says that in the ancient world or classical world would think about God judging man. Whereas in the modern world, we basically judge God. Right. And we kind of say, God, I don't know what you've done with this world, but doesn't seem like you've done a very good job. Right. Um, now of course there's a bit of a mystery about the suffering of the world, but the irony that we're gonna say God didn't do a good enough job trying to save the world, so we will handle it now. Right. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. It takes a lot of faith to believe that God will eventually restore the world.
Speaker 2 00:44:00 Right. And that his son rose from the dead. And that's the beginning of a new way of eventual new creation. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Right. But it takes in my mind a lot more faith. Right. To believe that we will now be able to fix the world. Right. Just give us one more try. Right. You know, it's all, uh, I think that's bit of a tower of pab. So anyway. That's great. So that's, that's a, that's a great book and I appreciate your sharing that. Uh, second, uh, question. What's a, what's a daily kind of act or practice you try to do, uh, that helps you, you know, enjoy, uh, and develop your relationship with, with God?
Speaker 0 00:44:31 Hmm. Yeah. Um, I mean, I try to, I try to read the gospels every day. Um, Wow. Um, I remember hearing Pop Benedict said that if Catholics read the gospels every day, then that'll usher in the new springtime and Oh wow. Yeah. And it's so, you know, there at times I think we can, you know, say, Oh, well I hear it at Mass or whatever, but to actually take a few minutes of time and to unpack, It's funny cuz sometimes I'll read a gospel passage and then the next day I'm kind still thinking about it and I read it again and it's like the Lord reveals something completely different from mm-hmm. <affirmative>, a very short passage, you know, and ask the Lord, what, how does this relate to my life? And I just find that's, that's kind of a key, um, moment of intimacy to, you know, again, like we were saying earlier, uh, proclaim the gospel to ourselves in an on ongoing way, evangelize ourselves so that we have something
Speaker 2 00:45:16 To give others. And I like that idea when you're saying, you were mentioning before, uh, this idea that we may think that God loves everyone, but he doesn't love me. Right. Jesus forgives all the sinners, but he doesn't forgive me. And in a certain sense, when we breed the gospels, kind of putting ourselves in the scenes, um, but realizing that like Jesus is speaking to us mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, and again, not kind of critically judging us. I mean, if he wanted to, that'd be fine and he could have mm-hmm. <affirmative> like if he wanted to condemn us, he could have, but he says, I didn't come to condemn the world, but to save the world. Right. And so really seeing his message of mercy, not just applied to others Yeah. But to me, yeah. I think is a really powerful, uh, theme. Yeah. And, uh, last question, what's maybe one false belief you had about God or about Christianity at some point, uh, that kind of harmed you and, you know, what was the truth that you discovered mm-hmm.
Speaker 0 00:46:11 <affirmative>. Um, the first one that comes to mind is I, I believed God to be a very harsh and, uh, distant father. Wow. I realized that's funny, but only with the benefit of hindsight, you realize how much our own human relationships can kind of impact the way in which we perceive God. Yeah. Um, and you know, I had some struggles growing up with my relationship with my own father, where we're in very good terms now. Um, but, uh, I really saw God as someone who would be majority of the time, if not all the time, disappointed in me. And there was something that had to be healed in, in, in me to be able to really relate to God as he is. Wow. So that's
Speaker 2 00:46:47 So powerful.
Speaker 0 00:46:47 Yeah. I wonder how many of us are kind of walking around with some sort of a, uh, you know, kind of, uh, image on God and not actually seeing him, uh, as a loving father as he is. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And if, and if we do experience that again, it might be good to spend time with the parable of the prodigal son and think of that, think of the Father who, uh, despite the offenses, uh, weighted, weighted, weighted and ran to, to embrace his son.
Speaker 2 00:47:08 Yeah. And you know, one thing that's really fascinating about that is the catechism says that one of the consequences of original sin is that we lost the image of God as a loving father, and we replaced him with kind of a tyrannical master. Mm.
Speaker 0 00:47:21 Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:47:21 Yeah. Now that means that basically our default position on God living in this world is that God is kind of a, a judgemental kind of, um, and not judgemental in a wholesome sense of removing us from evil, but a kind of a, a, a God who just doesn't like us.
Speaker 0 00:47:40 Right?
Speaker 2 00:47:40 Yeah. Uh, who's eternally disappointed with us. Yeah. Uh, ashamed of us. Right. And who doesn't want this is kind of the idea of God. And at the same time, that's what we're born into. And by the way, what are people often doing from the ages of five to 15? They have this view of God and they happen to be in church. Right. So they associate the two. Now it's not a, that's not what the church actually teaches. Right? Right. That's not the prayers of the church. That's not the stories of Jesus. Right. But that is kind of our innate, our innate fallen understanding of God, and that we often associate that with the church, and that's just Right. You know, and that's again, that sense for the new evangelization is part, is just to help people understand. Right. Right. That God's a loving father. Absolutely. Um, and that he sent his son right into the world, that we might have eternal life, and that his spirit of sonship might end dwell in us not through our own efforts. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Right. But simply because we say yes. Yeah. Right. To the gospel. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:48:38 So, and connected to that and to the, the topic. Uh, another thing that I didn't really perceive, and then I kind of understood it as I went to campus ministry and got involved there, I didn't grow up having the sense that questions were good and invited, you know? Oh, wow. It was, it was kinda like faith is to be received and obeyed and, and kind of that I didn't, I didn't have the sort of experience of, of dialogue is invited if you don't understand this teaching, Like, let's talk about that. Let's go deeper. And so because of that, I thought that a lot of the church's teachings were simply outdated and not updated. And maybe they just didn't have time to fix them or whatever. Didn't realize how worldly my kind of, my viewpoint was. But then when I saw like, no, the Lord gives us freedom and invites our freedom in the way we relate to him, um, and invites our intellect to try to understand and tackle things, it, the church became a very different place for me. You know? And, um, yeah, I just hope that everybody who might be struggling with a particular church teaching or idea, um, not not see that, um, struggle as something the church rejects, but something that the church invites us to, uh, investigate further, um, and discuss and yeah. That was transformational. Uh, I guess is understanding the church differently that way too.
Speaker 2 00:49:47 That's, that's so powerful. Well, uh, Josh, uh, canning, thank you so much for being on our show today. Uh, and, uh, just again, uh, for listeners mm-hmm. <affirmative>, who might want to learn more about, uh, some of the, um, platforms you offer. Yeah. Would you just, uh, tell them again how to
Speaker 0 00:50:03 Do that? Yeah, they can go to www.uevangelize.org. Um, Okay. And, uh, the letter u evangelize.org, um, our resources are free because we want people to use them. Wow. And, uh, if you find some, uh, benefit there, send us an email and let us know. Um, but, uh, check that out and, uh, we hope it helps you in your, in your missionary identity.
Speaker 2 00:50:22 Great. Thank you so much. Thank
Speaker 0 00:50:24 You. Good day. It was fun.
Speaker 1 00:50:27 Thank
Speaker 3 00:50:27 You so much for joining us for this podcast. If you like this episode, please write and review it on your favorite podcast app to help others find the show. And if you want to take the next step, please consider joining our enunciation circle so we can continue to bring you more free content. We'll see you next time on the Catholic Theology Show.
