The Philosophy of Femininity and Masculinity

Episode 41 July 04, 2023 00:57:31
The Philosophy of Femininity and Masculinity
Catholic Theology Show
The Philosophy of Femininity and Masculinity

Jul 04 2023 | 00:57:31

/

Show Notes

How can we define femininity and masculinity in an age opposed to objectivity? In this episode, Dr. Dauphinais talks with Dr. Maria Fedoryka, associate professor of philosophy at Ave Maria University, to discuss the fundamental differences between man and woman from a philosophical perspective.

 

Resources:

View Full Transcript

Episode Transcript

Speaker 0 00:00:00 Masculinity and femininity. They're created by God. God is not masculine or feminine. He transcends those. But masculinity and femininity are a symbol of a perfection of perfections that we find in God, and those perfections are ultimately the gestures of love. Speaker 2 00:00:26 Welcome to the Catholic Theology Show, sponsored by VE Maria University. I'm your host, Michael Daphne. And today I am pleased to be joined with, uh, colleague, associate professor of Philosophy, Dr. Maria Federica. Welcome to the show. Speaker 0 00:00:42 Thank you, Michael. Thanks for having me. Speaker 2 00:00:44 Well, we're pleased to have you here. And, uh, Dr. Federica, uh, has recently given a talk on the philosophy of womanhood. Uh, she wrote, uh, a small booklet, uh, for, uh, the Knights of Columbus called The Gift of Woman, uh, back in 2008, and has continued to write on womanhood, uh, philosophy of, uh, gender and these sorts of, uh, different issues for, uh, many years. And, uh, it's just such a topic that I think students and listeners are so interested in trying to, you know, think about. And so we're so pleased to be able to have you here this morning. Speaker 0 00:01:24 Thank you. Speaker 2 00:01:25 Yeah. And, and maybe just to kind of start with maybe like a bit of a provocative question that I think sometimes maybe our listeners might have or, you know, that, that they've heard many times. Right. Um, is it really appropriate to kind of talk about a philosophy of womanhood? You know, maybe, you know, some people might think aren't, are all of our understandings of gender kind of convention? You know, aren't these just social constructs? Or maybe, you know, as if, if we talk about the differences between men and women that we're going to make, uh, women less than men, or something along those lines, what would you say to people who kind of have that initial hesitation? Mm. Speaker 0 00:02:12 Well, probably what I would do is, um, first of all, acknowledge that we can fall into extremes, <laugh> Yeah. And very often reacting against those two extremes is what causes people to deny or reject the reality of gender, the difference between man and woman. So, on the one hand, um, I would just say, look, if we look at the witness of the ages, if we look at the witness of art and literature and social mos and so forth, and if we're, I think if we're really honest about it, and start by trying to free our minds of possibly the injustices that have been perpetrated against women, um, then if we, if we try to clear our mind of that and, and really just look at what the evidence gives us, then I think we have to say, <laugh>, overwhelmingly there's a, a difference between man and woman. Speaker 0 00:03:00 There's a two fundamental ways of being human. Yeah. So mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and, and so, okay. So that's, that's the one thing. I think that all the evidence is on the side, that there is a difference. And I think anybody who denies it is gonna have a hard time, uh, have dealing with all of the evidence mm-hmm. <affirmative> and, and somehow showing that it's false. But on the other extreme, you have a way of hardening the differences or, or making the differences applied to realms where they really aren't applicable. So that, for example, if you say something like, A woman is a deficient man, <laugh> mm-hmm. <affirmative>, then, then I think there's a problem there. Yes. Um, and so the, but you know, even on, on, with respect to, you could say prescribing acts, very often people will say, women should this men should do this, or should be this. Speaker 0 00:03:48 I think we can, we can sometimes feel a reaction to that because we can feel that we're being boxed in. And maybe in the course of, of today's, uh, podcast, we'll, I think we'll probably cover some of that. But if one hardens the difference too much mm-hmm. Then I think there is a problem. There's a problematic way. So the, the trick is to really navigate it right in the center where you acknowledge the difference. Mm-hmm. And, and I, I do think it's indeed very deep and very significant, but make sure that you, that you don't get it wrong in terms of what it means and how it mm-hmm. <affirmative> unfolds. Speaker 2 00:04:20 Yeah. And I think it's, you know, it's, it's interesting if we, if we begin thinking a little bit about some of the shifts that happen in modern philosophy, maybe with, uh, some, I'm thinking of kind of like John Locke's empiricism, where everything gets reduced to, and what I mean by empiricism is kind of dealing with that which only we can observe and touch, uh, and kind of measure and kind of experiment with on the outside, that we tend to reduce the human person to what they do to the function they hold in society, uh, and to, so it's kind of really what they do is more important in a way than kind of what they are. Uh, Locke, uh, somewhat, you know, famously, uh, argued that marriage is really just a social utility for the raising of children. Children, unlike other aunt Mammals take a long time. Speaker 2 00:05:18 Human children take a long time to raise. So mar you need to have this kind of something like marriage that would last for a while. But again, we're reducing then things to, you know, they're kind of what they do on the outside. Uh, and I think when we think about that as a whole, as a reduction of the human person in a certain sense to what the human person does and to the social utility of it, and then when we think about what does that mean to talk about men and women, then we're already going to be always kind of like mis misunderstanding man and woman, because we've, we're gonna be falling into the same kind of mindset of this utilitarian or empirical mindset where we're gonna then say, what is a woman? Well, a woman is what the woman does, you know, bear children in a biological sense for society. Speaker 2 00:06:08 What is a man? A man does something else. Mm. Uh, but it's kind of this re it's this, uh, like reduction in a way of thinking about what is the human person first. And it seems to me almost that that ends up then bleeding over to kind of misunderstandings of the notion of masculinity and femininity, where those, again, are merely kind of external things. What people do, um, makes you more feminine. What you do makes you more, uh, masculine. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So maybe, you know, could you say a little bit about how does this distinction between man and women, uh, go back in a way to kind of a deeper identity of what it means to be a person? Hmm. Speaker 0 00:06:51 Yes. Yes. So that's a, I think a good way of introducing it. The utilitarian approach will never really give us the true nature of men and women. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So we have to go to a deep review. And if you think about creation, all of creation reflects God's being. And that's really, it's first characteristic. And all of creation is a gift. And every perfection that we see, everything that's good, every endowment of every being is a gift, which is a reflection of God. And that's it's primary characteristic. Yes. And so, and it's, and it's anything that man and woman have that's going to be different is going to be about, about gift. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So, but let's foresee, if we can dig a little bit more deeply into, first of all, the, the nature of masculinity and femininity and Yeah. A little bit to its meaning. Speaker 0 00:07:34 So, uh, I'm still working this out now, I haven't published this anywhere, but I, I'm, uh, looking at masculinity and femininity from the perspective of symbolism. And it seems to me, I think Peter Cret writes about this also, although I don't think he's, uh, unfeel, uh, uh, undeveloped it yet, or unfolded it yet. So this is what I'm thinking, that masculinity and femininity are symbols of some very deep and rich and beautiful transcendent reality. So something in the being of God is reflected most deeply in masculinity and femininity. And if you think about the human person as being the pinnacle of creation, then it stands to reason that while, you know, a daisy or a lion would reflect God's being, the human person would reflect God's being much more deeply going to the very center of who and what God is. And of course, we see that in the rationality of the human person. Speaker 0 00:08:25 Yeah. But then I think masculinity and femininity, although they don't exist on as deep a level of course, as our humanity does, because it's, it's, or as our rationality does, cuz we have that in common still, it's very deep to the human person is masculinity and femininity. And this is my idea. So there's a kind of tradition that sees masculinity as kind of a picture of taking initiative. The philosophers would use the word spontaneity. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, the one who goes out of himself is and, and, and goes first. And then femininity has traditionally been somehow vaguely associated with passivity mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And what, what I think they were actually reaching for is not passivity, but another, a different kind of reality, which is called receptivity. Yes. Yeah. And so, um, what you have then is Speaker 2 00:09:14 You just say more about that passivity receptivity. Yes. It sounds like, I mean, I, I think there, that's like a whole different way of looking at Yes. Speaker 0 00:09:24 It's very different. Yeah. So, um, okay. So I'll try to be, I'll try to be simple, but a little bit of philosophy here, a little bit of technical philosophy. You can see that there are two, you could say metaphysical ways of being as in act, right? Actual mm-hmm. Or active mm-hmm. Or passive. So being simply the one to whom something is done. But within the category of act, within this first one, we actually find two fundamentally different ways of being active. One is through taking initiative, or I would like to say more fundamentally giving. Yes. And the other is receiving. And if we see receiving as a, as a personal act, I think a whole horizon of beautiful realities opens up to us. Speaker 2 00:10:10 Interesting. So then receptivity is another mode in a way of activity. Yes. Because it's, uh, it's not being acted upon in the way that, like, you know, an artist might act upon paint or a canvas Yeah. But it's a human person who is fully active Yes. Either then in the mode of, um, you know, right. Either this perhaps of giving mm-hmm. <affirmative> or really giving or receiving. Yes. Right. Yes. Initiating, or again, but that sense of like, receiving becomes, so it's not really then the act active passive, it's this two different modes that was being, uh, kind of suggested by the tradition. Exactly. Speaker 0 00:10:51 Yeah. They were seeing something. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:10:53 I think, I think gift and reception of gifts Speaker 0 00:10:54 Reception. Exactly. Yeah. And that's what it's going to be. They're going to be complimentary mm-hmm. <affirmative> ultimately mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So, gee, to receive, I, it's difficult to put a definition on it, but of course it presupposes an opening up of one's self, which already mm-hmm. <affirmative> is enormous Right. To think that you through an mm-hmm. A free act, open yourself to another. Right. It's very different than this analogy is nice of a canvas Right. Being worked upon. Yes. So I think that they were capturing something, it's like the key of masculinity and femininity. I wouldn't reduce it to those. But if we say, what's the ethos or the spirit or the, you could say flavor or coloring of mm-hmm. <affirmative> of masculinity and femininity, I would, I would locate them in receptivity and, and, and giving, going out of self in, in, in self gift. Speaker 0 00:11:37 So this is what is occurring to me that I think these masculinity and femininity are, they're created by God. God is not masculine or feminine. He transcends those. But masculinity and femininity are, are a symbol of a perfection of perfections that we find in God. And those perfections are ultimately the gestures of love. So we see that in the Trinity. We now know that God is love mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, and in fact, if you look at the theology, I know that Aquinas speaks of this, that the father is defined as the one who pours himself out the kinosis. Mm-hmm. And in fact, not, not one who does so, but one who is the outpouring of himself. And the Son isn't one who receives the Father, but he is the receptivity of the Father. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So they are, again, a little philosophy. They're subsistence relations that are, you could say, crystallized in personhood mm-hmm. Speaker 0 00:12:35 <affirmative>. And this is a mystery. Of course, we won't understand it. Yeah. But it makes sense, right? Yeah. To say that, that if God is love, we say, oh, let's see what are the elements of love it's giving, receiving, and then of course, the fruit that comes from them. So the Holy Spirit is very often spoken of as the union between the two. And so of course, for love to be complete, all the persons must both, both give and receive. But it is significant that each is considered, each person of the trinity is considered a personification of these very fundamental aspects. Speaker 2 00:13:07 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> of love. Yeah. And, and Augustine in his day, tri Naate has that, uh, just beautiful, very simple, but so penetrating and Alice. Right. Just that you, Trinity is the lover, the beloved and the love. Yes. Right. And, and that is in a certain sense, the lover and the beloved. Yes. Love, you know, has that aspect and Yes. And that in a way, right. For us to be fully human, uh Right. Is not to neglect our embodied character. Right. We have to somehow recognize that yes, we are rational beings, but we are also rational embodied animals. We, so we are mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we are genuinely right. As it says in Genesis, we are, God created us man and woman. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Uh, so this kind of goes into our very being. And it reminds me also, I, I Aquinas one time says that, uh, because God is so perfect and has all the perfections within himself and is completely one, that it's even more beautiful in a way to create a universe with, um, lots of kind of differences or diverse participations in the perfection of God. Cuz nothing other than God could ever contain all those perfections. Yeah. And so I think that idea of seeing man and woman, then as two perfections that express partly, you know, of course only God. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> expresses himself perfectly, but express partly this, this beautiful relation of love That's right at the heart of it. Um, yeah. That's right. Speaker 0 00:14:37 So I think that was very beautifully put. So then what, what you have is, you would say masculinity and femininity are a kind of articulation in an embodied person of these two perfections of God. They, they reveal it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and I think symbolism is mysterious, but, but we, we can understand what it means even if we can't fully define it. Right? Yeah. When you look at a woman, then, then you, you see what's communicated to you is this particular perfection of love. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, when you see a man, when you get in contact with masculinity, you, what's communicated is this perfection. Now. So what's important, as you say, is that it's really in the, in the being in the, in the being of man and woman, that we find this mm-hmm. <affirmative>, right. They each have a specific essence and structure with, with specific qualities. Speaker 0 00:15:23 We don't, we don't have to name them. We don't have to say where they're located. We can just say we find them, we see them, and they are a symbol in the created order in the, as you say, in the embodied incarnate order of these two gestures of love. And just very briefly, I'd like to speak about this because if, if it sounds mysterious at first, I think if, if we think about it, we find that we see this, this phenomenon of the manifestation of perfections of God and the created embodied order in many ways. So if you look at a lion, pe he's spoken of as a kind of metaphor for of nobility. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we can't explain why or how, but nobody would use a worm for a, an image of kingship. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So let's just take things as we find them, or if we, if we say like a lamb, I think there's a reason that Christ was, is the Lamb of God, right? Speaker 0 00:16:13 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, and there's something about the lamb that symbolizes vulnerability and surrender and so forth. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, so the whole pla already wrote about this in the third book of the Republic. The whole created orator contains meaning and points to spiritual realities. And now this is also true of course, of masculinity and femininity. So, but this is found in the very being of each this, and, and this is what I would like to say is that the whole, the whole world of receptivity and everything that it implies is communicated just by the being of the woman, the world of, of self-giving, and all of the beautiful things that that implies is communicated just in the being of the man. And this is the most important thing. A woman doesn't have to try to be feminine. A man doesn't have to try to be masculine. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, the gift of these two gestures of love accompanies that person wherever they go. And they are, you could say, accompanies that person wherever they go. And they are, you could say it's, they're shedding that ray and that light of these two beautiful gestures just by their Wow. Very being. Speaker 2 00:17:23 Yeah. That's very beautiful put. Uh, and you know, in some ways masculine femininity, in a way, are the very ways through which we perceive the world. So sometimes we don't even perceive them. And when we try to talk about them, uh, there's that, uh, famous line in Augustine's confessions when he says something along the lines of, we all know what time is until we try to talk about it, and then we can't really explain what time is. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Uh, and CS Lewis and his miracles at one time, uh, describes the fact that, uh, say scientists and naturalists have been so occupied, and he would even say preoccupied with coming to know and think about the universe and the material universe and all its splendor and wonder and intelligibility, that they forget that they were thinking about the universe. And so they're so good at thinking about the universe, but then they can't think about their thinking. Speaker 2 00:18:22 And so, in a way, what's most obvious to us, like our thinking or our rationality, becomes the hardest to explain. Mm. And when we try to talk about, say, our reason, well, we say, well, it's like a computer. Mm. Well, it's not like a computer Right. At all, because we make computers, and computers don't make us. Right. So it's, yeah. But it's like, we really, it's hard to talk about mm-hmm. <affirmative> the most, like, the, the most fundamental realities of our own experience in some ways are the hardest. And I think there's something about masculine and femininity that is like this. And so, so I think it's just really helpful in a way that what you're trying to do is draw our attention away from, uh, from merely looking at, so to speak, the external or like maybe overly specific external manifestations of masculinity and femininity, which can begin to all of a sudden appear perhaps arbitrary mm-hmm. <affirmative> or modes of dress, or different things like this, which seems to be maybe secondary, uh, but really more to the idea of just simply the being. Yes. Speaker 0 00:19:19 Um, yeah. That's very good. I think that's important that, um, we know about the way in which an atmosphere is communicated by something, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we, we don't, we can't find words for it, but we can say it's absolutely specific. If you come into a room that's beautifully decorated, you wouldn't be able to point to this or that maybe somebody who's a total expert would know. Right? Yeah. So God does know why it is that femininity communicates. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, this, this receptivity and masculinity communicates self-giving. We don't have to know, but we can say it is communicated, and we feel the ethos. It's so different being in one way, in the presence of a woman than it is being in the presence of a man. And what's communicated is, yeah. Is that, so, um, so I, but I think what I've done is tried to think through a little bit about then what is the content of, of femininity, so to speak, and what is it that she communicates? So is that okay if I talk little bit? Speaker 2 00:20:11 Absolutely. That'd be wonderful. Speaker 0 00:20:12 Yeah. Yeah. So the best that I can do is kind of, um, paint a picture. And this is the picture that I have. So before I do this, what I'd like to do is say the following, that masculinity and femininity, I think don't prescribe particular actions. So I don't think we can say it, for example, that women, um, can't be engineers just to be trite or trivial. And men can, and women, men can't be nurses and women can, however, I do think there's going to be, and I'll one area in which some role is prescribed by masculinity and femininity. And that's where I'm going, but I won't mention it yet. Okay. I wanna first describe what the gift of femininity is, and the gift of masculinity is to the world and to others. So, so these are the two pictures I'm going to paint. So first of all, imagine empty space way out there. Speaker 0 00:21:02 Imagine the darkness, the airness, the emptiness, the free falling character if you found yourself out there. Okay? So you have that picture, it's cold, dark, airless. And then imagine by contrast, the picture of, let's say it's a cold December night, and then a cottage with a living room that has a fireplace. Um, beautiful stuffed sofas, um, warmth, candlelight, uh, throws on the couch. And there you are, um, snug sitting on that sofa, encompassed, encompassed, right? By all of these, you could say these, um, beautiful trappings of safety and warmth and receptivity. Okay? You're, you are in a sense held in this atmosphere. And so this is the way I picture what the feminine, um, represents. It represents being received, being received unconditionally in everything that that does for the soul. We are held, we are accepted. We don't have to earn our existence, right? So to be really receive another person means to encompass them in an affirmative gaze, but at the same time, giving them infinite space, as it were, to be who they are. Speaker 0 00:22:26 Mm-hmm. <affirmative> receptivity is very difficult to describe. Yes. It's extremely positive. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but extremely hands off, right? Mm-hmm. It's to, to receive someone is absolutely unconditional. So I think masculinity represents something too. And this is kind of, uh, a little bit of a silly image, but, uh, for some reason, Jurassic Park comes to mind, and when you remember the, the, the, at the point where they go out in the Jeep and you know that they are in this incredibly scary place, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you have the dinosaurs mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So I'm, the, the movie's only gonna work partially for this image mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but imagine if that Jeep had really kept them safe. So you have these incredible monsters mm-hmm. <affirmative> there, that, that, but they imagine that the Jeep really, they couldn't penetrate into it. Yeah. And it would be kind of scary to be in there, but, you know, I'm completely safe. Speaker 0 00:23:09 The world cannot, the, those, those monsters cannot put a scratch on me because I'm being held in this way. And that to me is a little bit of the picture of masculinity, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, both have to do with gift and self-giving. But you can see how different it's going to be. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So to me, again, the very presence of the woman communicates, this is a little bit of what the presence of the woman communicates, a little bit of what the presence of the man communicates. And so, I'm, I'm almost finished with this, with this long, uh, discourse here. So this is the thing that I would suggest when it comes to one reality, in, in, in the, you could say the, the life of created persons, it's, it's, uh, family motherhood and fatherhood being parents. And here I think we get very close to rules which bind the man and the woman. Speaker 0 00:24:00 Only the woman can communicate to the child this very deep ethos of receptivity, so that they, in the first moment of creation, experience themselves as unconditionally received. So, I ha it's no accident that it's the woman, the the woman's being in which the child comes to exist, right? Because of her receptivity in the, in the symbolic character of her being. Then physically she becomes the one who receives the child. But this is to give a picture of a deeper spiritual reality. The child needs to be received unconditionally. So then when the child is born, the presence of the mother communicates something that the presence of the father absolutely cannot. It doesn't matter how much the father does, it doesn't matter how much he says. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, his being simply cannot communicate that receptivity, which is so crucial to the first moment of coming into existence. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So that was rather long. But Speaker 2 00:25:00 I think it's, no, that's a beautiful, that's a beautiful image. And right, in part, there's that idea that Right. Men and women or men and women can carry out many activities and jobs that are gonna be, you know, that might be, uh, like, you know, that, that, that are, are gonna be very similar. Right. But the one that Right. You know, I can not, I can do many things. I could be a nurse, I could be a teacher, I could do all these other things. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but I cannot be a mother. Right. I can't properly Right. Give birth. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I can't nurse, I can't mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But those are kind of even external, they're not external. Cause they're really expressions of the soul through the body. That's right. But it's that the ways in which those things reflect that receptivity. Yes. Right? Yeah. Uh, and that's why then, um, what, what, what is expressed kind of biologically is the expression of a deeper reality of the soul. So, right. Um, this insurance women can be mothers. Right. Even if they don't have biological children, right? Yes. In that kind of role, um, whatever kind of, so to speak, job they have. Speaker 0 00:26:10 Yes, exactly. Speaker 2 00:26:12 Yeah. Is that a proper way of trying to understand it? Speaker 0 00:26:15 Yeah. I think, I think that's very well put. Um, if you consider that there are few activities that men can't do, I think this is a kind of picture of the fact that only a woman can be mm-hmm. Speaker 2 00:26:29 <affirmative> Speaker 0 00:26:29 A woman to their child, a mother to their child. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So as you say, receiving the child, bringing it to term mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they haven't figured out how to do this outside the woman's womb. Yeah. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and as you say, breastfeeding, this, these are symbols of the fact that, oh, a man can't be a woman Speaker 2 00:26:47 Mm-hmm. <affirmative> Speaker 0 00:26:47 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So they're Speaker 2 00:26:48 Very close. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And part of that idea too is that in individual human beings, for thousands of reasons, a lot of this won't happen. You know what I mean? And when those things don't happen. Yeah. Um, because of say, like, I dunno, let's just imagine, say a woman who can't breastfeed. Okay. They're not less of a woman. That's right. Right. Just like a human being with, with, I don't know, who has a limp is not less of a human being. They just, you know, but but, but you wouldn't say that kind of like running, even if that person can't run the running doesn't belong to the full flourishing of the human being. Yes. And so it's that kind of idea. I think, again, it's sometimes letting go of this empirical mindset that we expect the nature like the, the inner core of the nature to be revealed in each and every instant. Speaker 2 00:27:30 Yeah. Because for lots of reasons, there'll be people again who, who, who, who are infertile. Right. So we're not reducing Yeah. Femininity to biological motherhood and these particular things. But we're showing that when that happens, then there's an aspect of motherhood that is kind of revealed, and all of a sudden we realize, oh, that's what it's for, so to speak. Yes. Um, and it's no less present. And, and of course, you know, famously, at least for the Catholic tradition, we have mothers like Mother Teresa, Saint Teresa Yeah. Or Saint Teresa Benedicta. Stita Stein. Right. Who of course did not have children. And yet we see in them the full flowering of maternity. Yeah. And I remember there was a, uh, when Pope Francis, uh, at Mother Teresa's canonization, and of course, well, what do you call her? Because now she's Saint Teresa, right. Of Alta, um, and he just says, he goes, we'll, probably still continue, continue to call her Saint Mother Teresa because, but like, so, so again, so it's this idea that these, these things that are expressed, um, they reveal in a way the inner core. Speaker 2 00:28:39 Yes. But that, you know, but that does not mean that people who do not experience those are any less feminine. Uh, and I think that's kind of a thing that we tend to, it's partly, I think even today, like sometimes first say men who are less, quote unquote, quote unquote, less masculine. Right. Because maybe they're less furry or, you know, they hit puberty later, or they're not as physically strong, they're not less masculine in any way. Right. You know? Um, right. Mm-hmm. So this is really important to kinda say. It's the inner core of the being. And the same kind of say for women who may not fit a particular, um, you know, body, I don't know, whatever it is, or whatever kind of, you know, like, is on Instagram today. Yes. They're not, in any sense, less feminine, because those expressions are only kind of, I don't know how to put it there. They're both real, but secondary. Yes. So anyway, I think it's a really powerful image that you've, uh, created. Let's, um, let's take a quick break and, and then, um, when I come back, uh, I'd love to hear a little bit about maybe just how you got interested, you know, in this topic, yourself, in studying it, and then explore some more aspects. Sure. So, thank you. Okay. Speaker 3 00:29:50 You're listening to the Catholic Theology Show presented by Ave Maria University. If you'd like to support our mission, we invite you to prayerfully consider joining our Enunciation Circle, a monthly giving program aimed at supporting our staff, faculty, and Catholic faith formation. You can visit [email protected] to learn more. Thank you for your continued support. And now let's get back to the show. Speaker 2 00:30:16 Welcome back to the Catholic Theology Show, and I am pleased today, uh, to be with a colleague in philosophy, Maria Federica. Uh, and we've been speaking today about, right. What does it mean to be a woman? Uh, what is the philosophy of womanhood? How should we understand man and woman, right? And how can we deepen our understanding of this kind of reality that is ever present? And yet, uh, I think also it, um, actually as a, as, um, Dr. Federica pointed out in one of her articles has almost become the thing that now we're not sure about how to talk about it anymore. Yeah. Something that's so fundamental, but somehow seems to be, uh, almost kind of arbitrary or, you know, difficult to speak about. Uh, I'd love to hear you maybe just continue a little bit about, do you have anything more, you know, you've been teaching these materials, you know, for, you know, for so many years. Uh, and are there particular kind of struggles that you find that students, or maybe, you know, uh, people with whom you speak, uh, have about this topic of masculinity and femininity? Speaker 0 00:31:26 Yes. So, um, it's related to the remark that you made just before the break, which is, and we've been talking about that, which is that the masculinity and femininity are about being, and not about doing or acting mm-hmm. <affirmative> or secondary, secondary, uh, characteristics. Yes. Which you find in the externals. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So this is, I very often find that, um, especially actually, I've heard it from both men and women. Yes. How liberated they feel when they hear that just by virtue of being a man or being a woman mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I am communicating these perfections of God to the world mm-hmm. <affirmative> just by being <laugh> mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And it, what it does is it liberates them from thinking about being masculine or being feminine, which is actually, if you think about it, quite a distortion either Stein writes about this. Yeah. She says that the most important thing is for a person to be him or herself to be authentic. Speaker 0 00:32:26 And what does that mean? That means we become most authentic when we are attentive to others and to the world around us, and give the response that is due. Right? Every situation calls for a response, right? Mm-hmm. The one who's, we hear this right in, in, in, in scripture, the one who's sorrowing, we should sorrow with them, the one who's rejoicing, we should rejoice with them. This frees us just to be ourselves and to be for others. And what happens, of course, then, is that these secondary traits of masculinity and femininity mm-hmm. They will just flower on the back of that mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and, and then now we can say Sure. On that secondary level, it's mysterious. But there are certain traits that you could say are kind of picture of that deeper spiritual reality. So we do speak of a feminine voice, of a feminine gesture of a feminine, and, and we see, yeah. Speaker 0 00:33:14 That some people have maybe a more feminine face mm-hmm. <affirmative> than other women. But you know what, nevermind, those are gifts. Right? Some people, some people, you know, are, are smarter than others. Some people are faster than others, some people, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and we all have our gifts. And there are some women who, who have the gift, you could say, on the secondary level of, of somehow reflecting these characteristics. But it is not the essence of womanhood. So, for example, either Stein apparently was not very feminine in her, in her physique and in her face, and even in her voice and so on. But as she grew in virtue, apparently she was incredibly feminine, and nobody could explain how or why, but she communicated this, the beauty of femininity in her being. So I wanna say to all men and women, take heart, don't think about your secondary characteristics. Speaker 0 00:34:01 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, there's also the whole sphere of interest and inclinations. Right. Men tend to be interested in certain things, maybe sports or, um, you know, fixing cars or guns or whatever. I know these are cliches, but sometimes people identify their masculinity with that mm-hmm. <affirmative>, nevermind. If you're interested in interior design, if you're interested in, in, you know, whatever, whatever it be, that's typically more feminine. Because some people begin to think, well, maybe I'm not really a, a man. Maybe I am a woman trapped in a man's body or something. Mm-hmm. No, you can have all of those mm-hmm. <affirmative> secondary characteristics, because again, either Stein says, we are first and foremost in some sense, first and foremost, individuals, each of us is absolutely irreplaceable. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And of course, we find ourselves with the extra gift of being masculine. Yeah. Or the extra gift of being feminine. But we always have to remember that we are individuals, and if, if we don't think about being man or woman, we're free to actually be ourselves. Speaker 2 00:35:03 Interesting. That's very beautiful. And in some ways, right. That reminds me of something I think that, uh, Victor Frankl says that the universe, so to speak, questions us, and each of us is our fundamental response to the universe. That's beautiful. Uh, we can see that with respect to, that's beautiful. Um, in a more explicitly Christian understanding, right. That our fundamental vocation Right. Is to love God before, to love our neighbor. Right. Adam and Eve are created primarily for God. Yeah. And only in a way, secondarily for each other. Uh, and so I think when we recover that idea of that, and again, these are not in competition with one another, but they're ordered and harmonious, at least in their original theme, uh, that, that there is that deep beauty, right. That first I'm a, I'm, first I'm a child of God, and then I begin to recognize, oh, in the, in the being that I am, which is fundamentally being, that's capable of coming to know and love God, which is an amazing gift. Speaker 2 00:36:08 Right. You know, dogs are wonderful, but they, you know, they don't get up and worship, uh, nor do they repent their sins. I mean, they sometimes get, you know, uh, they, they, they worry about getting in trouble. Right. If they did. So, uh, but, um, but, but in a way then I also recognize that when I see God, I mean, when I, when I recognize my vocation to God, I also then have to recognize God, how did you know? How, how did God make, who am I? And then I began to say, oh, I'm a daughter of God. I'm a son of God. Yes. Right. So then I begin to think about how can I be that? Yes. Right. And I think it's so beautiful to, uh, you're right. I do think there's so much pressure on people to conform to external standards. And, and again, at least partly what I wanna suggest is that this really comes from the kind of empiricism of modernity in this attempt of modern, at least expressions within, with within a little bit of political philosophy, or not science per se, but certain philosophies of science, uh, that we begin to want to see the world as something that we can always remake and reshape in what however we want. Speaker 2 00:37:17 Yes. Uh, so Yes. Uh, and, and then in a way we lose that mystery. Yes. Uh, and, and, and, and I think that can really be right, kind of disorienting, and we can become almost, in a strange way, kind of like exiled Yeah. From the world and exiled from our fundamental being. So, uh, maybe just to, you know, develop this a little bit, I'd love to, you know, you, you did just paint a beautiful picture, the symbolism of, of motherhood. Right. Which is a reality of femininity expressed sometimes, not all the time. Right. You know, but expressed sometimes. What would you say then, to that role of the, uh, uniquely irreplaceable role of femininity in motherhood? How would you express the unique role of fatherhood, uh, in that moment? Speaker 0 00:38:13 <laugh>. Okay. Go. Well, I'm a little bit on the spot here, <laugh>. Speaker 2 00:38:17 I know the talks on motherhood. Yeah. Or fa uh, sorry. On womanhood. Speaker 0 00:38:21 Yeah. So I, again, I'm, I'm actually still working on mm-hmm. <affirmative> on this idea, but I gave a little bit of a picture with that silly Jurassic part. Yeah. Um, point, um, you know, if again, we have to reach for, um, metaphors and analogies mm-hmm. <affirmative> in trying to capture something which ultimately alludes concepts and words, but I would, yeah. Maybe we could say, well, you know, what is it that gives a little bit of a picture of, of what the gift of masculinity is? I would probably say something like, we think of things like the support that comes from strength, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because of course, the mother supports her, her child mm-hmm. <affirmative> and it, but in a completely different way through that encompassing and unconditional receiving mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but the, the masculine, I think symbolizes the, the strength that supports that's mm-hmm. Speaker 0 00:39:08 <affirmative> that's there, that, that the child can lean into and lean on. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. I also think there's a reason why the, for example, the charism of leadership is associated with masculinity, not because women can't, again, in fact be leaders mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but there's, there's something about, um, this kind of taking initiative and going out of one's health. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, of course, if we think of leadership as service. Right. And so, so leads in order to defend and to protect and to keep safe, right? Yeah. The other side of it I actually think is very important is when we think about the moral law, um, I, I forget, was it Chesterton who said that we don't break the law, we break ourselves against the law. Yeah. Right. There's something immovable and immobile. So what is the moral law? It's that thing that speaks to us that says, here is a good, and you may not violate it, you may not destroy it. Speaker 0 00:40:05 It's being offered to you as a gift to beatify and enrich you. But if you don't wanna receive it, you may not violate it. And there's something in masculinity and fatherhood that represents that beautiful, solid kind of reality. Is there, it won't shift, but it, that can be experienced negatively if we're ready to violate it, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so that's why the father, very often, it's very important for him to be there. I mean, it, it's cliched again, but the mother will say, wait till your dad gets home. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and I tell him, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, so again, this is not about something artificial. His very being symbolizes the beauty of the immovable of the moral law that ultimately leads us to God. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So, so that's, I, that's probably about the, well, what I can do here. That's Speaker 2 00:40:52 A beautiful way of expressing it. Um, yeah. There is a, you know, Milton's Paradise lost, uh, his, you know, his early modern, somewhat pur, you know, and inspired by Puritanism attempt at trying to retell, uh, the story of Adam and Eve and their expulsion from the gall garden and, uh, these different things. And Sunday people criticize the view, the relationship between Adam and Eve within there, and Charles Williams, who was a 20th century, uh, really philosopher and literature, uh, uh, author as well, profound influence on CS Lewis. Uh, he wrote a beautiful introduction to Paradise Lost. And that, uh, Lewis thought was probably one of the, he said it was like the most brilliant thing on Paradise Lost. Uh, but one thing he just says that always rhymes me is he says that, uh, no doubt Milton's views on men and women and the relationship between the sexes. Speaker 2 00:41:45 He says, like, all attempts to express the relationship between the sexes Right. You know, is kind of profoundly inadequate or something, you know, it's like one of those things that's so real. Yeah. And yet I think we have to, but I love the way you say that, but we still have to be able to express it, so let's not, let's not overly worry whether or not we're expressing it Right. Because it's a reality that the more we can recover. And I love that sense too. It's like you think about a mother giving birth, uh, burying a child, you know, nursing a child, all these things again, you know, a lot that just intense, that intense receptivity makes, also creates intense vulnerability. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, the child and the mother are intensely vulnerable in a way someone needs to stand also over. Mm-hmm. Because while that love is happening in the mode that it is mm-hmm. Speaker 2 00:42:36 It becomes incredibly vulnerable. And so somebody has to also stand over and, and help and protect. And so you can kind of see these different things and, you know, uh, and I, I just think it's, uh, I think it really is, you know, again, anytime we try to express it, we can always pick those apart. I think we also want to defend, uh, you know, again, in miracles, Lewis says that any speech about the super sensible is necessarily metaphorical. Yeah. Right. Love when we talk about it like an attraction, it's like gravity. It's like, it's not like gravity at all. Right? What is it? It's very hard. Who Yeah, exactly. It's very hard to talk about what is love, and yet it's also that which makes life worth living. So the highest things, the most important things. Right. You know, God is hard to express. Yeah. Uh, so all these different things, I think are just ways of that that, but, but, but also trying to recover those, uh, as I said, I think are really, you know, helpful. Yeah. Speaker 0 00:43:30 Yeah. And I think, I think, you know, if you, if you think about, so remember all of this is primarily about the ethos that Yes. That masculinity communicates. Speaker 2 00:43:39 You mentioned before the atmosphere. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you mentioned now ethos. Yeah. You mentioned once the hue. Yeah. Would you just maybe explain those concepts for listeners or viewers who might not be, you know, as familiar with those? Yeah. Speaker 0 00:43:54 Okay. So this is, this is what I think is going on. Reality has a, a dimension to it, which you could say is more formal, which we can capture in, in words. So you can say something like, if you look at, um, the Mona Lisa, you can say, well, the, you know, the distance between the eyes is such and such mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and the color of the hair is such and such, and there's so many gradations of color. And people sometimes say, maybe there's an underlying, underlying green and so forth. So what we've managed to do there is we've managed to capture the quote unquote formal aspect, which can go into concepts and go into, be put into words. Yes. Be put into con. We can, we can conceptualize it. That means, just means a clear focus on it and words to frame it. And then we can communicate it. Speaker 0 00:44:37 But then there's another dimension to the Mona Lisa, which is, I would say qualitative. You could say it's, it's on the level of the qualities. And here we have a harder time putting into words mm-hmm. What's going on. Mm-hmm. So sometimes people say, oh, her smile is mysterious. Mm-hmm. Oh, she seems to have a secret. Sometimes people say it's full of humor, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, but you know, none of those actually captures exactly what strikes us when we look at her. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But we do say this, we say, the feeling that I have is, is definite, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but I can't, I can't put it into words mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so we find mm-hmm. <affirmative> in our experience of the world, the, the, that formal side, which we can conceptualize put into words, but there's another dimension, which I think actually is part of the richness of the world. Speaker 0 00:45:22 Our experience is loaded with it a dimension that we, and now I hope I'm not being controversial, but just to put it very simply and informally, that we are more in touch with on the level of our feelings, you could say of the heart mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but it's, but it's definitely communicated to us, right? Yeah. Very often we say, well, I felt like this, and we will use 20 words to try to ex explain to a best friend exactly how we felt. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And we know, unless you get inside of me, you won't get this. Yeah. But it's, it's there. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and that's the same thing I think with masculinity and femininity we can reach for, for words and concepts, but there's gonna be ultimately some surplus. That means there's more to it that we can't capture in words, but that is very specific mm-hmm. Speaker 0 00:46:04 <affirmative>. And so I'm, and that's the kind of the, the qualitative mm-hmm. <affirmative> that is communicated on the level of sensing or feeling. And so what I wanna say is masculinity and femininity is delivered to us very, very, you could say specifically and very truly. Yeah. But mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it contains more than we can ever. And, and so when we say hue colors, cuz colors actually create an atmosphere. Everybody knows what it means to go into a red room mm-hmm. <affirmative> and feel kind of excited and nervous. Yeah. You go to, there are colors that are calming mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so that's all I'm trying to communicate. Yeah. So I sometimes speak of, there's, there are other reasons to speak of Hugh too, but for now that's, I'm just gonna leave it Speaker 2 00:46:43 At that. No, that's so beautiful. And uh, I think you can, yeah. I think listeners can also get a sense for why would so many students enjoy being in Dr. Federica's philosophy class. Uh, you have a way of, uh, making these philosophical realities and the tradition very alive and present. It reminds me of a pascal, right. Who you know, somewhat famously said, right. The heart has its reasons of which reason knows not. We kind of have some, you know, intellectual, it's like a, it's, it's more than our cognitive ability, but it's this ability to kind of receive intellectually and kind of full in the lee the world. Yes, exactly. So, one thing I'd like just to shift to, to make sure we speak a little bit about, um, right. Not only does Genesis say that God created man and woman in the image of God, he created them, you know, at the end of Genesis two, you have this beautiful, really kind of marriage, you know, of Adam and Eve. Speaker 2 00:47:38 Uh, but we also have in Genesis three, something, uh, horribly goes wrong in the relationship between man and woman. Somehow the woman's now no longer gives herself to the man or receive no one no longer receives the man, but now somehow desires the man can't live without the man perhaps. And then the man as a season, Genesis three somehow has dominion over her, dominates her. So we have, in the history of the world, which I think is one of the reasons why people have such a hard time seeing man and woman, is you do have what you mentioned at the beginning of this history of so many injustices, uh, collisions perhaps between man and woman. Uh, and you know, just as a kind of a silly somewhat instance, but, you know, I think so many women today enjoy running, enjoy competing. We have a lot of women's sports, uh, women, you know, I think, uh, but I think it was 50 years ago in the us uh, that women couldn't run marathons. Speaker 2 00:48:35 So like in the Boston and, uh, New York marathons, women weren't allowed to participate. I think the longest women could run competitively in the US was a mile and a half, uh, because it was thought that it would hurt their bodies or something along these lines. And the first woman, I think who ran the, I don't remember what year it was, if it was like 67 or 72, but about 50 years ago, the first woman ran the, I think it was the Boston Marathon and competed in it, you know, like unsanctioned. And she finished. So, you know, perhaps that's an instance of kinda like, wait a second, these are, these are activities, uh, which kind of a lot of people enjoy and they're fun. And here you have a society that limited took them away from women. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, what would you say to, I don't know, to kind of that experience either of the injustice and collisions between men and women? Between men and women, or to, you know, maybe societal, uh, injustices that have been expressed against women? Speaker 0 00:49:33 Oh my goodness. This is just such an enormous topic. Um, let me see if I can try to capture a little bit of mm-hmm. <affirmative> of my thoughts. So, cuz I've actually taught a course on this, it was a mini course, but, um, so many different angles and, and, and problems here. But I would maybe start by saying the following. So if I go to the conclusion of where I would go, I would say mm-hmm. <affirmative>, look, the answer to everything is always virtue, always growth and virtue. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, none of these problems are going to be solved until both men and women live virtuously. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, that's, that's kind of the, the, the ultimate conclusion. But, uh, um, on the other hand, so, so I would say this, so yes, so man has, so does, as scripture says, dominated woman. And, and you could say the history of the human race is a kind of catechizing the human person, by God bringing them out of this, these structures of original sin. So the Old Testament, you still had polygamy. Mm-hmm. Not because God sanctioned it, but because he was slowly educating the human race. And so then by the time Jesus comes, he says, if you look at a woman, uh, you, you, you are, you are guilty or in a lustful way, you're guilty of adultery. Right. So he's calling us to a new perfection. And um, but the working out of that transformation actually has to happen in each individual. Right. Even though you have a kind of cumulative catechesis, each individual has to reach. Speaker 2 00:51:00 So we have to stop looking, so to speak, at trying to fix the whole problem of society and kinda say, wait, this is an invitation for me Yes. Speaker 0 00:51:08 To become transformed to Speaker 2 00:51:10 Grow and virtue. Speaker 0 00:51:11 So I would say on the one hand, with respect to, let's say the dominator, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, I, I think it from this perspective, it's useful. We haven't talked about the tendencies that masculinity and femininity give rise to in the human person. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And that would be probably another podcast. Yeah. But we can, we have to acknowledge that there probably are certain patterns of fallenness also, and again, we have to be careful, I've heard statistics mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, that say, you know, only 80% of men and women identify with the quote unquote stereotype types. Okay, sure. And that's a large chunk. 20% don't. So Yeah. And that means both men and women will not experience certain fa fallen characteristics. Yeah. Still, I think it's very useful for each gender to be aware of the weaknesses. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and frankly, when it comes to, um, the fallen aspect of strength, which is power mm-hmm. Speaker 0 00:52:00 <affirmative>, it's just gonna get the upper hand. Right. Because that's what power is. Yeah. And that's why the history has kind of given the man the advantage, so to speak, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and then on the, on the part of the woman, I would say this, that, um, each woman has to recognize that this whole problem of the, you could say the plight of woman, which is real. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> is between her and God. Mm. It's not between her and not, certainly not all men who have ever existed mm-hmm. Or all, or all sinful structures that have ever existed. It is between her and God. And what, what the feminist movement, what I think is problematic about it is it there's a real problem that it gets right. That it's responding to, but it immediately moves into the wrong response and it sabotages anything constructive and makes impossible, which is what anger, right. Speaker 0 00:52:55 The woman, if she experiences suffering in the face, she has to actually embrace that suffering mm-hmm. <affirmative> and, and go to Christ with it. Now I'm speaking about a Christian response. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, go to Christ with it and seek resolution there so that when she then does turn to constructively address the issues, it could even be in her own life, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, even a husband can bear that fallen, right? Yeah. Um, then she has to now not react, but respond. Mm. So I, I know that I could have gone in any number of directions in response to your Speaker 2 00:53:27 Question. Well, that is so, that's so beautiful. But there's Speaker 0 00:53:30 A little bit there. Speaker 2 00:53:31 Yeah. Uh, and I think that's really good to see again, that you have the feminine, feminine and masculine have kind of dominant gifts. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> of self gifts and self recept or receiving mm-hmm. <affirmative> and then also due to sin. We also have dominant kind of fallen expressions of that. And we need to become aware of those. And, and I think it could be fun too. Maybe it would be, I think this would be a great topic to have for another podcast. Uh, we go through, uh, really quickly three questions. Uh, so I like to ask my guests on the show. So what's a book you've been reading? Speaker 0 00:54:03 Oh, <laugh>. Okay. So, um, well, I'm reading the autobiography of somebody who I think is a saint. His name is Don Lindo. Oh, yes. And you may have heard of him. And I highly recommend to the listeners a beautiful nevena, which, or a prayer that he wrote that is, um, that it was turned into a, a novena, it's called The Surrender Novena. Speaker 2 00:54:25 Yes. That's so powerful, the Surrender Novea. I encourage people to look it up online. Yes, absolutely. The surrender novena. Absolutely. Speaker 0 00:54:30 And, you know, uh, uh, I think speaking of mm-hmm. <affirmative>, this difficulty that women can have, that's the first place I would go, <laugh>. Speaker 2 00:54:36 Yes, yes, yes. Surrender. And for men and Speaker 0 00:54:38 Yes. And for men too. Yeah. No, that's right. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and, um, I'm actually li um, reading the Voyage of the Don Treader again. Oh, good. Right now. And of course I've read it many times. Yes. But I was just, um, just, I, I it's one of my favorite books of that's of an Nia series. That's great. So there we have it. Speaker 2 00:54:53 Let's, um, what's just one out of Manny, maybe you have, uh, you know, I'm, I'm sure many, but what's one daily practice that you do to try to, um, in a way discover your own, you know, kind of oc vocation before God mm-hmm. <affirmative> and live that out. Yeah. Speaker 0 00:55:08 It's to first thing in the morning, uh, turn to the Lord and first, uh, acknowledge his dominion and his providence over all things, and to completely surrender myself to that in love and to, um, ask for help to accept everything that he sends. And it's a practice that only takes, can take 30 seconds if you have no time. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but I highly recommend it because I found that it actually structures the day and changes things, so, wow. Speaker 2 00:55:43 That's beautiful. Yeah. That's great. I try to do it <laugh>. Yes, yes. And last question, what's a, maybe a false view you held about God? And, uh, what was the truth you discovered? Mm-hmm. Speaker 0 00:55:57 The false few that I held of God was that I was the one person to whom his provide loving providence. Didn't extend, but it was a feeling. Okay. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it's not intellectually I didn't hold it. Yeah. But I lived in a feeling that he cares about everyone else and not me. And I think that it was changed through faithfulness and prayer and showing up every day and asking him to change that. And then he did one day, but I didn't, I don't think I did anything to, to change it. Speaker 2 00:56:27 And Wow. Well, thank you for sharing that. Yeah. That's a really profound insight. Uh, so again, thank you for being on the show. Uh, Dr. Maria Federica has been with us today, um, for those who might, you know, be interested, uh, just by the way, um, uh, she has an article called, um, uh, gender, what is It? Why Does It Matter? In the Homiletic and Pastoral Review, uh, that you can find online from 2012. And, uh, she's also the author of a booklet called The Gift of Woman, uh, which originally came out with the Knights of Columbus, I believe, has been reprinted with the Catholic Truth Society. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So again, thank you so much, Maria, for being on our show. Speaker 0 00:57:06 Well, thank you, Michael, for giving me the opportunity and, and for all of your insights, <laugh>. Speaker 2 00:57:11 Excellent. Thank you. Thank you. Speaker 3 00:57:13 Thank you so much for joining us for this podcast. If you like this episode, please write and review it on your favorite podcast app to help others find the show. And if you want to take the next step, please consider joining our Annunciation Circle so we can continue to bring you more free content. We'll see you next time on the Catholic Theology Show.

Other Episodes

Episode 13

December 20, 2022 00:56:49
Episode Cover

Why Should We Care About Ecclesiology?

Why should we care about the history of the Church? Dr. Michael Dauphinais sits down with Fr. Guy Mansini, Max Seckler Chair of Theology...

Listen

Episode 51

September 12, 2023 00:56:24
Episode Cover

The Last Battle and How to Die Well | Into Narnia with C. S. Lewis

How can we live in a way that prepares us for death? In this seventh and final episode of the “Into Narnia with C....

Listen

Episode 23

February 27, 2024 00:49:10
Episode Cover

Recovering the Sacrament of Marriage

What is Matrimony and why should it be protected as the primordial sacrament? Today, Dr. Michael Dauphinais is joined by John Clark, author, political...

Listen